the definitive " what is a real Black Beauty ? " thread ......

[Dr. Green]

I have seen over the years many historics called a " black beauty " reissue when to me they were not the real deal.
so I will put together a list of things that the guitar MUST have to qualify

if anyone disagrees with me - feel free to chime in

1) all mahogany body - no maple cap
2) real Ebony wood from Africa - no Rosewood, Richlite , alternative wood species, or any other bullshit
3) Kluson tuners - absolutely no other type
4) no CS- XXXX type serial number ....... only xxxxx type
5) 2 or 3 humbuckers
6) mahogany neck
7) mahogany must be actual south American species regardless if it grown elsewhere - not any of the false african alternatives
8) solid body without weight relief holes
9) no fancy custom embellishments such as alternative colors , sparkles , engravings etc ...... standard Black finish only .

​

 

[ADP]

Must have waffle back tuners*, 3 pickups, and a bigsby. All gold hardware.

 

[DutchRay]

What? No love for P90 and Alnico Customs? Those should be on the list for sure!

 

[jb_abides]

What? No love for P90 and Alnico Customs? Those should be on the list for sure!

Yes!

Also:

RE (3) I make allowances for Grovers. We are an inclusive community.

RE (7): Honduras is in Central America, not South America, so there's that... and Honduran Mahogany [explicitly swietenia macrophylla] can be sourced from South America, Mexico and Central America, and is now being cultivated elsewhere: even Hawaii and Asia. So good wood of the swietenia macrophylla species, vice location, although Gibson hasn't gone out of the Americas for Historic Reissues as far as I know. Epiphone, another matter.

 

[Dr. Green]

What? No love for P90 and Alnico Customs? Those should be on the list for sure!

you have photos of a vintage 57- 61 Les Paul black beauty custom with P 90S ?

lets see it

 

[Dr. Green]

Must have waffle back tuners*, 3 pickups, and a bigsby. All gold hardware.

silly me = left out the gold hardware

you have a photo of a vintage 57-61 les paul black beauty custom with bigsby - lets see it !

they came as a 2 pick-up version too ..... does not need to be 3

 

[Dr. Green]

Yes!

Also:

RE (3) I make allowances for Grovers. We are an inclusive community.

RE (7): Honduras is in Central America, not South America, so there's that... and Honduran Mahogany [explicitly swietenia macrophylla] can be sourced from South America, Mexico and Central America, and is now being cultivated elsewhere: even Hawaii and Asia. So good wood of the swietenia macrophylla species, vice location, although Gibson hasn't gone out of the Americas for Historic Reissues as far as I know. Epiphone, another matter.

all I said was it cant be the AFRICAN false mahogany and must be the African real ebony

 

[jb_abides]

Start with Les's prototype of the very first Custom... certainly that counts!

 

[DutchRay]

you have photos of a vintage 57- 61 Les Paul black beauty custom with P 90S ?

lets see it

The Custom was introduced in 1954. With P90 and Alnico pickups.

 

[jb_abides]

all I said was it cant be the AFRICAN false mahogany and must be the African real ebony

You said "South American species" when in fact it's named after a Central American locale and found elsewhere, including South America.

 

[jb_abides]

you have photos of a vintage 57- 61 Les Paul black beauty custom with P 90S ?

lets see it

We need to be talking 1954-until production halt, right?!

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[jb_abides]

silly me = left out the gold hardware

you have a photo of a vintage 57-61 les paul black beauty custom with bigsby - lets see it !

they came as a 2 pick-up version too ..... does not need to be 3

1960 Factory Bigsby

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[Dr. Green]

this is all great and good but remember this is the Gibson Historic forum

if I go to Gibsons custom shop web page there is a total of one guitar which Gibson calls a "black beauty"

and this is it : https://www.gibson.com/en-US/Electric-Guitar/CUSGJ5555/Ebony-2-Pickup

"The resulting dark mid-range tone from the body pairs perfectly with its bright-sounding solid Ebony fingerboard. All together, it's the pinnacle of guitar craftsmanship, design and tone. Gibson Custom Shop is proud to revive every last detail of the original "Black Beauty" - Gibson official web page

I have this book - I know about the 54s

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/QhUAAOSw7Q1f65Q2/s-l400.jpg

 

[jb_abides]

this is all great and good but remember this is the Gibson Historic forum

if I go to Gibsons custom shop web page there is a total of one guitar which Gibson calls a "black beauty"

That's today; the only Historic Custom you can buy from the 'pure vintage' period is the 57 Ebony 2-PUP i.e. excluding the 68.

Now you must go thru Murphy Lab for a 57 3-PUP or Made-to-Measure for other 5X year variants. They are offered upon request as M2M.

If you think you can exclude vintage 54-56 based on advertised Historic product offering representation, you can most easily justify their inclusion when the Custom Shop offered on the website and thru dealers in earlier years under prior management/ownership. They were all on the website, at one time or another. And Gibson threw around the 'Black Beauty' moniker pretty liberally on versions of their website and marketing materials through the years. So I am not for that to substantiate.

Also, if you were to narrow the definition to the current Custom Shop offering's spec, you would have to cite Waffle-backs, therefore exclude other tuners, BTW.

While any vintage 1954-60 Les Paul Custom guitar in Ebony are broadly speaking Black Beauties, of which ALL have had Custom Shop Historic Reissues, many will view the 57 LPC with PAFs and ABR-1 as "The Black Beauty."

 

[Dr. Green]

I basically agree with what you are saying.

the main point of the thread is that if you have a semi black beauty - such as a maple cap ...... as CS xxxxxx serial number ..... or God forbid Richlite board - its not a real BB.
There were a few vintage 59 BB that had grovers according to my ref book but a Historic should have wafer back tuners ......

 

[jb_abides]

I basically agree with what you are saying.

the main point of the thread is that if you have a semi black beauty - such as a maple cap ...... as CS xxxxxx serial number ..... or God forbid Richlite board - its not a real BB.
There were a few vintage 59 BB that had grovers according to my ref book but a Historic should have wafer back tuners ......

Understood.

That said, I have a post-raid Wine Red Custom with Richlite, and nothing wrong with it for what it is (and what it cost me)!

 

[renderit]

They did a run of BB4's in 2016.

They used x xxxx serial numbers and incorrect waffles ((gold tips instead of ivory) since replaced with correct), but they came with waffles, one piece hog bodies and real ebony boards.

Some bitched about the yellowed finish they used, but it looks tons better in person than in pictures.

 

[jb_abides]

I currently only have a 3-pup BB7 stop tail (no pics) ... yearning for a BB4 staple, probably will go Murphy Lab light aged or ultra. Will request ivory waffles.

 

[Wilko]

The 1968 Custom was the first with maple top and is considered one of, if not "THE BEST" of the custom line--because of that maple cap.

oh, and three pcikups was the standard model BITD. Two pickups was a special order

Mick Ronson!

John Fogerty.

 

[Dr. Green]

Wilko -

you always come up with nuggets of wisdom .....